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	<title>Comments for getiblog</title>
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	<link>http://blog.getify.com</link>
	<description>open-source, javascript &#38; ui musings</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:25:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Grab UI by the Handlebar by maboa</title>
		<link>http://blog.getify.com/2010/02/grab-ui-by-the-handlebar/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>maboa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.getify.com/?p=234#comment-42</guid>
		<description>OK my turn to clarify. :) I should have written &#039;to me transforming XML with XSL to produce (X)HTML just seemed to make sense.&#039; 

I wouldn&#039;t dream of accusing you of using JSON to transfer markup. :) I agree HTML should be transported as is.

Some browsers do support XSLT natively http://www.w3schools.com/XSL/xsl_browsers.asp and you can always check which ones do and transform clientside or serverside where appropriate.

However  I want to try out other ways of templating and HandlebarJS will be at the top of my list. It looks very neat. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK my turn to clarify. <img src='http://getiblog.2static.it/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I should have written &#8216;to me transforming XML with XSL to produce (X)HTML just seemed to make sense.&#8217; </p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t dream of accusing you of using JSON to transfer markup. <img src='http://blog.getify.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I agree HTML should be transported as is.</p>
<p>Some browsers do support XSLT natively <a href="http://www.w3schools.com/XSL/xsl_browsers.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3schools.com/XSL/xsl_browsers.asp</a> and you can always check which ones do and transform clientside or serverside where appropriate.</p>
<p>However  I want to try out other ways of templating and HandlebarJS will be at the top of my list. It looks very neat. <img src='http://blog.getify.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Grab UI by the Handlebar by getify</title>
		<link>http://blog.getify.com/2010/02/grab-ui-by-the-handlebar/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>getify</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.getify.com/?p=234#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, XSLT is not natively supported in the browsers, whereas a JavaScript based &quot;transformation&quot; like what HandlebarJS does, is supported natively everywhere. But in spirit, yes, XSLT has some good things about it. I like it better than some of the horrible templating hell I&#039;ve seen over the years.

Clarification: nowhere do I suggest that JSON is the proper format for transferring &lt;strong&gt;markup&lt;/strong&gt; from server to client. In fact, I&#039;d argue quite the opposite. Check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://test.getify.com/mpAjax&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mpAjax&lt;/a&gt; (multi-part Ajax Responses) for an approach (which will probably make it into HandlebarJS/BikechainJS eventually) to handling different kinds of data in their native formats.

In HandlebarJS, JSON is used for DATA that will populate a template, not the markup that eventually gets wrapped around the data. The same would be true if that data were being exchanged between two processes on the server, or if it were being sent over the wire to the browser. In my opinion, JSON will always be the superior format for data exchange.

Conversely, I&#039;d argue that HTML should be transported as HTML (not as JSON or as XML), mostly for efficiency reasons. The exception I&#039;d make is if the HTML was in a HandlebarJS template that was pre-compiled (like at build-time), in which case what would transfer over the wire would be a snippet of executable JavaScript instead. This is a case where the run-time to compile it on-the-fly in the browser would be avoided in favor of compiling the templates ahead of time on the server, which comes at the &quot;expense&quot; of transferring the markup in less than ideal format in exchange for faster rendering times in the client.

And yes, HandlebarJS and BikechainJS are clearly intended (though not required) to work together. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, XSLT is not natively supported in the browsers, whereas a JavaScript based &#8220;transformation&#8221; like what HandlebarJS does, is supported natively everywhere. But in spirit, yes, XSLT has some good things about it. I like it better than some of the horrible templating hell I&#8217;ve seen over the years.</p>
<p>Clarification: nowhere do I suggest that JSON is the proper format for transferring <strong>markup</strong> from server to client. In fact, I&#8217;d argue quite the opposite. Check out <a href="http://test.getify.com/mpAjax" rel="nofollow">mpAjax</a> (multi-part Ajax Responses) for an approach (which will probably make it into HandlebarJS/BikechainJS eventually) to handling different kinds of data in their native formats.</p>
<p>In HandlebarJS, JSON is used for DATA that will populate a template, not the markup that eventually gets wrapped around the data. The same would be true if that data were being exchanged between two processes on the server, or if it were being sent over the wire to the browser. In my opinion, JSON will always be the superior format for data exchange.</p>
<p>Conversely, I&#8217;d argue that HTML should be transported as HTML (not as JSON or as XML), mostly for efficiency reasons. The exception I&#8217;d make is if the HTML was in a HandlebarJS template that was pre-compiled (like at build-time), in which case what would transfer over the wire would be a snippet of executable JavaScript instead. This is a case where the run-time to compile it on-the-fly in the browser would be avoided in favor of compiling the templates ahead of time on the server, which comes at the &#8220;expense&#8221; of transferring the markup in less than ideal format in exchange for faster rendering times in the client.</p>
<p>And yes, HandlebarJS and BikechainJS are clearly intended (though not required) to work together. <img src='http://blog.getify.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Grab UI by the Handlebar by maboa</title>
		<link>http://blog.getify.com/2010/02/grab-ui-by-the-handlebar/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>maboa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.getify.com/?p=234#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Nice post. I hear what you&#039;re saying and I agree with you. I have been using XSLT for similar reasons for many years now and this is perhaps where we differ. I&#039;m well aware of the problems with XSLT, verboseness, quirky tag-based syntax and even a few limitations. But I loved it for it&#039;s language independence, and also because to me converting XML to (X)HTML just seemed to make sense. HTML is XMLish whether you put the X in front of it or not. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I like JSON, I use it all the time - it&#039;s perfect for transporting data I want to use as an object within my JavaScript, but JSON doesn&#039;t quite seem like such a natural fit as a web-page-populating-format. Incidentally, with XSLT I tended to do all transformation on the server, so the client never had to &#039;understand&#039; XML.

I guess I&#039;ll need to try it out before commenting further. If I were to use in anger I&#039;d definitely need to be running it on the server (for SEO reasons). I suppose if like you say, we now have a &#039;middle end&#039; - it deserves it&#039;s own environment. This sounds like where BikechainJS comes in.

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. I hear what you&#8217;re saying and I agree with you. I have been using XSLT for similar reasons for many years now and this is perhaps where we differ. I&#8217;m well aware of the problems with XSLT, verboseness, quirky tag-based syntax and even a few limitations. But I loved it for it&#8217;s language independence, and also because to me converting XML to (X)HTML just seemed to make sense. HTML is XMLish whether you put the X in front of it or not. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I like JSON, I use it all the time &#8211; it&#8217;s perfect for transporting data I want to use as an object within my JavaScript, but JSON doesn&#8217;t quite seem like such a natural fit as a web-page-populating-format. Incidentally, with XSLT I tended to do all transformation on the server, so the client never had to &#8216;understand&#8217; XML.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;ll need to try it out before commenting further. If I were to use in anger I&#8217;d definitely need to be running it on the server (for SEO reasons). I suppose if like you say, we now have a &#8216;middle end&#8217; &#8211; it deserves it&#8217;s own environment. This sounds like where BikechainJS comes in.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>Comment on LABjs: new hotness for script loading by Diego Perini</title>
		<link>http://blog.getify.com/2009/11/labjs-new-hotness-for-script-loading/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Diego Perini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.getify.com/?p=69#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Kyle,
I am really impressed by the work you did and the gains in the graphs.

I had an &#039;iframe&#039; parallel loading implementation but it&#039;s not working for the damn IE, so not usable on more than the 60% of browsers around ;-)

Your solution is quite appealing since it seems easy to implement on most sites and working cross-browser. My compliments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle,<br />
I am really impressed by the work you did and the gains in the graphs.</p>
<p>I had an &#8216;iframe&#8217; parallel loading implementation but it&#8217;s not working for the damn IE, so not usable on more than the 60% of browsers around <img src='http://getiblog.2static.it/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Your solution is quite appealing since it seems easy to implement on most sites and working cross-browser. My compliments.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Why DOM-ready still sucks by getify</title>
		<link>http://blog.getify.com/2009/11/why-dom-ready-still-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>getify</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.getify.com/?p=44#comment-27</guid>
		<description>@codylindley -- that is true, as long as none of the scripts you are loading care about $(document).ready(...), jQuery is perfectly safe to use with LABjs! 

It&#039;s just $(document).ready(...) usage is so common with jQuery pages that it&#039;s easier to assume it &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; being used and be cautionary, than to assume the opposite and have lots of weird race-condition gotchas. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@codylindley &#8212; that is true, as long as none of the scripts you are loading care about $(document).ready(&#8230;), jQuery is perfectly safe to use with LABjs! </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just $(document).ready(&#8230;) usage is so common with jQuery pages that it&#8217;s easier to assume it <em>is</em> being used and be cautionary, than to assume the opposite and have lots of weird race-condition gotchas. <img src='http://blog.getify.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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